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Winning a local Team Challenge with the Daemons

Hell just froze over…  I’m thinking it might be time to hang up the Daemons for a while, or not.  I guess even a broken clock is accurate twice a day.  What am I talking about?  My local gaming group (that plays at Olde World Gaming in Elk Grove, CA) just went down to Stockton, CA to visit the crew from Heroes on Paper.  We played a three round Team Championship match, similar to ATC or ETC formats, but updated for 6th Edition.  You can read my blog post on the draft rules here.


The short of it was that our team of seven had a narrow victory over our opponents.  Out of 21 total games (3 rounds of 7 matches each) we went 11-9-1.  My Daemons came out as the only undefeated army of the day with a lot of guys coming in 2-0.

I’ll post up some battle reports when I have a moment, but I have to both congratulate my team and give a huge thank you to my opponents.  I had 3 stellar games, two of which may very well have come down to a final die roll.  So, when I started writing this article I was thinking I would hang up the Daemons for a bit and give my Wolves some more attention, but upon reflection, winning two close games isn’t a route.  I’m solid, but not an awesome player, and Chaos Daemons still rely on luck to pull off major wins.

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Flamers of Tzeentch – OP?

Flamer’s of Tzeentch – painted by me
The reaction I’ve been getting of late is absolute fear or loathing of my flamers.  Among the myriad screams of “Daemons are OP” the two data points people use to express their frustration with my army is Fateweaver and my Flamers.  I’ll discuss the king chicken in another thread, but I’m starting to agree that the Flamer is a really good value.
Points to consider:
  • I have not yet found a compelling reason to waste 5 points on Pyrocaster upgrades (no one will charge them, so I can’t use it as a character bait/challenge and look out sir provides no real value with this unit).
  • When taken in squads of 3-4 (even 5) they are suicide units.  If a single model makes it to turn 2 then I’m thrilled.  At 1750 points I’ve been taking three squads of 3 (69 points).  The value proposition changes when we’re talking about squads of 6-9 models.
  • In order to maximize points  return you have to deepstrike them for a direct hit.  Which means you will scatter 7 inches in a random direction 2/3 of the time.  Which means you will deepstrike mishap somewhere between 17.5-33% of the time (based upon your enemy’s positioning).  Let’s go with a moderate 25% mishap.  This means you will loose 69 points about 8% of the time.  69 points is now 75 points (thanks to the mishap tax).  So, aside from the 33% of the time when you direct hit, the rest of the time you’re likely going to scatter far enough that you’re shooting warp fire instead of a flamer.  Warpfire is what your 17 point Pink Horrors have, but you get at 23 points.  Factor in the increased BS and you have a 20 point Pink Horror.
I don’t know.  I don’t think they are over powered.  They are one-dimensional and then they stick their landing they are deadly.  The rest of the time they get to jump across the board while getting shot up, or you loose them off the table edge.  I could see 25 points, even 28 points a piece if you really wanted to push it, but not OP.  At least not crazy OP.
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Team Championship rules for 6E

Paying homage to ATC/ETC my local “club” in Elk Grove, CA and another group about 45 minutes south in Stockton, CA decided to get together for an ATC lite.  However, upon looking for rules, it seems that everything published still references 5E rules, so Tim Trammel and I set about revising what we’d seen for 6E.

Our event will be held on December 1, 2012 at Heroes on Paper in Stockton, CA.  Tentative rules per my initial discussion with Tim are as follows and subject to revision by both teams in the next week.

DRAFT – DRAFT – DRAFT

Format
Key concept: practical tactical acumen but have a good time (no WAAC)
1500 point lists
No match ups will be repeated (each person will get 3 opponents)
3 rounds, 2 hours each, 15 minute breaks

Team
6-7 players, including captain (who plays)
Same number of players from each team

Lists
1500 points, same list for all games
Lists submitted to opposing team 1 week in advance
Standard rulebook (allies are in, double FOC out at 1500 points)
Forgeworld 40K approved is okay
Fortifications are included; however FOD and SSLP are discouraged due to size
Models do not have to be painted, but painted models are encouraged
Modesl do not have to be WYSIWYG, but consistent “counts as” will be required (i.e. a unit of lasguns in one unit can be all lasguns or all plasma guns but you cannot use the same model for 2 or 3 things in a unit)

Psychic Powers
Per BRB

Warlord Traits
Select and roll on two lists (can use codex list in lieu of BRB list) before game and choose one of the two results.

Terrain
No special rules for unique battlefield debris in play
Mysterious terrain is in play; however the first roll for each type of terrain applies to all of that type for th duration of the game (i.e. first roll for a forest applies to all forests)
Fortifications should be placed per terrain spacing rules if possible, otherwise 1 piece of terrain can be moved to place a fortification.
Terrain will be placed by the TO for the day in advance of the matches.

Objectives
Mysterious objectives are in play; however the first roll applies to all objectives for the duration of the game.

Missions
All 6 missions will be in play, 2 per round (this way all 6 missions will see equal time, although each player will onyl play 3 of them), evenly divided between the tables and randomly assigned after terrain is placed.  Each round will have 1 deployment.

Missions – Round 1
Deployment:
Missions:

Missions – Round 2
Deployment:
Missions:

Missions – Round 3
Deployment:
Missions:

Match-ups
All terrain, missions and deployment will be discussed by both teams and then…

1. Before each round the two captains will roll a die.
2. The captain with the LOW die roll will select an army from his team that has not yet been matched up and present it for a pairing.
3. The captain with the HIGH die roll will select an army from his team that has not yet been matched up and present it for a pairing (provided those two players have not yet played each other).
4. LOW die roll will select the table (with already determined mission) for that match to occur on.
5. The HIGH die roll will select an army from his team that has not yet been matched up and present it for a pairing.
5. The LOW die roll will select an army from his team that has not yet been matched up and present it for a pairing (provided those two players have not yet played each other).
6. HIGH die roll will select the table (with already determined mission) for that match to occur on.
7. Repeast steps 2-6 until all matches are determined.  In the event that a pairing cannot be made due to duplicate matches, an existing pairing will be selected at random and mixed with the remaining pairs to make a legitimate pair.

Scoring:
Each game will be scored as a Win (1 point), draw (.5 points) or loss (0 points) based upon accumulated victory points (per BRB both primary and secondary).  VP totals for each game will be tracked.  VP totals will only be used in case both teams score equal numbers of points at the end of the day or to determine a “best overall player” in the event of a multi-way tie.

Entry fee and prizes
$10-20 each (up for discussion).  Winning team will get a trophy.  If there are enough funds then best overall and best team may get some store credit prize from Heroes on Paper.

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My first RTT with the Daemons in 6th edition (40K)

I’ve been playing the daemons regularly for a few months now; from the tail end of 5th edition through the codex update.  Today was my first RTT with the daemons.  Let me start by saying that the timing was poor for me, as I’m a huge San Francisco Giants Fan, and today was game 3 of the World Series, but I trudged on.  I went 1-1 and skipped the 3rd game in favor of the baseball game.

 

Lessons I learned:

  1. Watch the clock and make sure you get your turns in, or risk loosing a game due to leaving models off the board.
  2. Daemons are not OP (contrary to all the whining) but they have such a different play style that they must be factored in when building a list.  You need to have a counter for Flamers and Screamers.
  3. Hordes of IG are difficult to chew through unless you have template weapons, and even then Flamers of Tzeentch are not resilient enough to chew through hordes quickly enough.
  4. Dumb luck can win or lose a game for you.  My Fateweaver model cast Boon of Mutation on my first round opponent’s Abbaddon model and turned him into a spawn.
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New Greater Daemon Models (and Chaos Furies)

 
 
 

Based upon what Stickmonkey writes below, and what we’ve already heard before we should be seeing new Daemon models within the next 3-4 months.  Who knows if this will part of a new codex or just another WD update.  The only thing that needs fixing to justify the purchase are the furies.

Also, based upon the Flyrant model I would expect to see GDs get bigger, but remain on 60mm round bases.  Looking forward to a complete redesign on the Keeper of Secrets.


via Stickmonkey on Warseer

Furies. They have been redone, they are coming for Daemons, they look so much better than the current models. The question will be if their rules make them worth it. They are about Nid Gargoyle sized, maybe a bit larger. Bat wings. Much more daemonic heads with toothy maws in 2 parts like the horrors and bloodletters. Not the bat men of old. Dual kit with a new ground based daemon, much like the vargheist/crypt horrors (which I’ve mentioned before).

There are a lot of questions winging my way about the GD. So to try to address those:

  1. I don’t know for sure all 4 will be released at once or if they will be in waves.
  2. I have conflicting rumors they are moved to the oval base and are roughly the size of the beastmen gorghon, vs staying on the 60mm round bases. Based on my personal eyes on on WIP before, they are bigger. The Greater Unclean One was not as big as the FW model, but its bigger than a dreadnought. My source says the Greast Unclean One is the best looking of the new models, that it is “absolutely rot, in a good way”.
  3. The Blood Thirster should be slightly shorter than the dreadknight. stylewise it hasnt changed much.
  4. The Keeper of Secrets is the most changed style wise. Does not go towards the FW model or retain the style of the current GW model. Still very slaaneshi
  5. The Lord of Change AFAIK is the tallest of the models, not just due to the wings. Did not appear as hunched as before. Head options include a more fishy looking option.
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Why do I play Chaos Daemons in Warhammer 40K?

I was listening to a relatively new podcast over the weekend, Hitting on 3s.  I’ve heard two whole episodes so far, so I don’t have enough perspective for a review.  However, I did hear a great bit of wisdom that I want to share.  The hosts of Hitting on 3s shared their thoughts on how someone comes to settle on their ideal Warhammer 40K codex/army.  The thought goes like this:

  1. You choose your first army based on what looks cool.
  2. Your second army is often what wins.
  3. Your third army is the one that you pick because it fits you best.

There was a a bit of conversation between the hosts on this topic, but the general consensus was that this seemed to hold true with a general exception (if your first army is also a “top tier” army then you may go straight to your ideal army as your second army).

For me, I fall into both categories.  Let me explain.  When I got back into playing Warhammer 40K at the end of 2010 I inherited an old 3rd edition Dark Eldar army from a friend.  It was in horrible disrepair, but with the new release of the Dark Eldar I found the sail boats to look awesome.  Unfortunately, I never got around to actually playing the Dark Eldar.  While I was acquiring models I picked up the Space Wolves omnibus and got sucked into the world of the Vikings in space.  I loved the story and the general consensus at my game store was that Space Wolves and Blood Angels were both excellent army choices (top tier) at the time.  So, my second army (but the first one I actually played) were the Wolves.
Not being a very good general, it always frustrated be to hear people tell me that my army was cheesy and I was playing a broken codex.  I don’t keep track of my win/loss record, but if I did it would have been like a handful of wins to a bucket load of losses.  So, while I still love the Wolves’ fluff and will always play this army as my favorite power armor codex, I wanted to find another army to play more casually.
I was at a local tournament, the Contest of Champions or COC at Great Escape Games in Sacramento, CA in early 2012 and saw someone’s Daemon army with the old metal Pink Horrors painted in brilliant colors.  I was immediately drawn to the aesthetic of the army.  I had the opportunity to play my first game against a Daemon army later that day and I was hooked.  I found that the army rewards my play style, chaotic and chance taking.  I also found that it was generally considered to be a mid-level, if not bottom tier army in the waning days of 5th edition when I started playing the Daemons.  It was a perfect army for me.  I get to make crazy, chance taking decisions, the play style is different from every other army, and no one could accuse me of being a power gamer.
Fast forward to 6th edition and we see a few nerfs to Daemons:
  • Fleet is now less advantageous than it was
  • Close combat generally plays second fiddle to shooting
  • Khorne takes it in the shorts (hell sword AP3 gimp and the loss of furious charge initiative bonus)

Funny enough, I was drawn to Tzeentch because of the look of the metal Pink Horrors, Flamers and the Screamers, and so I was playing an all Tzeentch list before the change over to 6th Edition.  With the change to 6th Edition and recent White Dwarf codex update, my Tzeentch Daemons haved moved on up the ranks of armies:

  • None of the nerfs above had much of an effect on Tzeentch’s daemons
  • 6th Edition places more emphasis on shooting, which is squarely in the realm of Tzeentch’s daemons.
  • Fateweaver, when flying, is harder to take down (but harder to keep placed well for his 6″ reroll bubble)
  • Flamers can overwatch and glance the crap out of vehicles for cheap.
  • Screamers are more well rounded and now a very viable anti-TEQ choice in addition to their improved, yet already good, tank busting ability.
  • Deep striking has improved (less mishaps, quicker reserve deployments).

Anyway, I picked Chaos Daemons because the look cool, play a different meta game than any other army, are random, and aren’t hardcore (like Grey Knight Paladin’s, Necron Flyers, IG Leaf Blowers, and debatably Wolf Missile Spam).  What I didn’t realize is that they are a little less random and just got a bump in power in the early days of 6th Edition.